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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 10:01:29 GMT -5
But, as i predicted, none of you would call out any wrongdoing on his part. So, whatever. You seem to be doing a spectacular job of damning the president, I certainly don't need to. He's made as many mistakes and is as incompetent as any who have come before him but maybe Reagan, whose administration had more convicted criminals in it than any in modern history. The puppet Bush just worked for corporations, much the same as the current puppet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 10:01:55 GMT -5
Well, i have to take my son to the Orthodontist. So carry on in your Induced Coma.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 10:03:10 GMT -5
But, as i predicted, none of you would call out any wrongdoing on his part. So, whatever. You seem to be doing a spectacular job of damning the president, I certainly don't need to. He's made as many mistakes and is as incompetent as any who have come before him but maybe Reagan, whose administration had more convicted criminals in it than any in modern history. The puppet Bush just worked for corporations, much the same as the current puppet. Bush, Bush , Bush. You are fascinated by the Bush! There is no discussion about Obama that can occur with out Bush Bitching! You are so true to form! OMG! ;D
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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 10:03:17 GMT -5
Well, i have to take my son to the Orthodontist. So carry on in your Induced Coma. Poor kid....
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 10:03:41 GMT -5
Well, revert back to form Pilgrim since you cannot have a critical review or discussion on Ben ghazi. I had hoped you were different but i can see you are nothing but a mindless liberal and a big waste of my time other than playing with ya. LOL! 4 people died... What do you believe the original starting point for this tragedy to be? What would be the first step you would have taken to ensure this would never happen?
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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 10:05:26 GMT -5
You seem to be doing a spectacular job of damning the president, I certainly don't need to. He's made as many mistakes and is as incompetent as any who have come before him but maybe Reagan, whose administration had more convicted criminals in it than any in modern history. The puppet Bush just worked for corporations, much the same as the current puppet. Bush, Bush , Bush. You are fascinated by the Bush! There is no discussion about Obama that can occur with out Bush Bitching! You are so true to form! OMG! ;D That's because they are all the same and yes, I am true to form, disgusted by every president to come from these 2 corrupt political parties that rule government at every level. They are almost as disgusting as the radicals who support them.
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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 10:14:35 GMT -5
yawn Let's see. I hope there is a new episode of Honey Boo Boo on. Much more stimulating than talking to you two. Then go spew your ignorant, radical bullshit to Honey Boo Boo...
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 10:29:21 GMT -5
I suppose being on the extreme edges of a political party would be so much easier.. At least that way you have all the answers...
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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 10:35:13 GMT -5
I suppose being on the extreme edges of a political party would be so much easier.. At least that way you have all the answers... Maybe they believe that, nobody has all the answers. The closest thing to having all the answers would be the CEOs and bankers, Wall Street and that bunch who dictate what goes on in government. Politics is just the entertainment branch of corporatism.
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 10:36:44 GMT -5
To be completely honest, I know little about what happened in Benghaz other than mistakes were made, people died, stories were told afterward.
Oh, and "Obama Sucks"
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 10:42:19 GMT -5
I suppose being on the extreme edges of a political party would be so much easier.. At least that way you have all the answers... Maybe they believe that, nobody has all the answers. The closest thing to having all the answers would be the CEOs and bankers, Wall Street and that bunch who dictate what goes on in government. Politics is just the entertainment branch of corporatism. When something goes wrong in this country I expect answers to be found that would prevent this wrong from happening again... Jumping up and down while pointing fingers is never an acceptable answer, or solution.
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Post by a on Feb 8, 2013 11:06:45 GMT -5
Maybe they believe that, nobody has all the answers. The closest thing to having all the answers would be the CEOs and bankers, Wall Street and that bunch who dictate what goes on in government. Politics is just the entertainment branch of corporatism. When something goes wrong in this country I expect answers to be found that would prevent this wrong from happening again... Jumping up and down while point fingers is never an acceptable answer, or solution. True, the screaming and finger pointing is nothing but political theater. The problem is that even when solutions are found they are soon reversed in favor of special interests. The advent of corporatism and supply side economics, the neoconservative philosophy, has brought about the greatest redistribution of wealth this country has seen since right before the great depression and unprecedented growth of the military/corporate complex. (just as Eisenhower warned) So what happened? The repeal of the Glass Stegal Act and deregulation of banks and financial institutions. The monopolization of media. Corporate rule of government. The desire for world domination and spreading democracy at the point of a gun. (while the fact is that we ourselves live in a Constitutional Republic, a very limited, representative democracy where the head of state is elected by neither the popular vote nor our democratically elected representatives who supposedly represent our wishes) The attack on civil liberties in the name of fighting terror. Whose to blame? 2 corrupt political parties in a corrupt 2 party system. Will a solution to this be implemented again? Maybe, but not for long. History will repeat itself. Greed will prevail. The USSR imploded because of the corruption of that political system yet seems to be making a comeback. Maybe not on as big a scale and in the name of democracy but not a lot has changed in who holds power. Benghazi, drones, the so called war on terror....distractions that cause death and misery to members of the military, make windfall profits for defense contractors and allow government to limit civil liberties.
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Post by robinpa on Feb 8, 2013 11:14:56 GMT -5
robin - WHat did i "copy"? You like to spout your bullcrap at me so what did i copy? So tell me blow by blow what happened in Benghazi and what the White House did besides nothing? Go ahead, i am all ears. Tell me what Obama and his administration did beside try to spread a tale of lies about a video? Let's hear it. LMAO fuzzy, again these allegations you spew are typical right winger BS. You are telling us only what Limabugh, fox news, and others are telling you. Thats what you are copying. Its no different than any other Obama hate laced BS you post. As for my position on it, its simple and pretty much mirrors Pilgrim's. There hasnt been a complete investigation on this whole matter. What has come to light has been that security was lacking. Security was lacking because funding got cut. Funding was cut because some of your fellow repos were more concerned with cutting costs for vital areas rather than safety and security, plain and simple. THose are the only facts that have come to light. All of the so called testimony that has been spread around isnt complete because the investigation is not complete. There has been no "blow by blow" account of everything that happened during that mess that has been told as of yet. There are no facts to suggest conclusively that the white house did nothing, nor has there been a complete telling of what was done by the white house since the investigation has not been completed. If you had really been researching this whole issue fuzzy you would know this. But you have only been listening to fox news and other right winger bs. The only people who are blaming Obama for any of this are the right wingers. Those conducting the offcial investigation havent blamed anyone specifically as of yet. So again fuzzy, you dont have any real facts to back up your position. Pilgrim has asked you several times, to back up your Obama hate here with some facts, and like every other Obama hate spewed bunch of typical right winger bs you post, you cannot because you have no facts to back it up. You talk about testimony, but you have posted no links to back it up. All of your info has come from fox news, limbaugh, right winger blogs, and other Obama hating right wingers. Not only have you posted no links, but when IIf, pilgrim, shirina, and anyone else who challenges your views asks you direct questions regarding what facts your have, if any, to back up your views, you get upset and toss out some insults, because you have no real facts. Typical right winger bs.
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Post by robinpa on Feb 8, 2013 11:32:11 GMT -5
Here is the official timeline for the Benghazi Attacks that has been released all over to just about every news source:
September 11 (Events are listed using the time in Benghazi)
9:42 p.m. -- Armed men begin their assault on the U.S. Consulate.
9:59 p.m. -- A surveillance drone is directed to fly over the U.S. compound, but it is unarmed.
10:32 p.m. -- The Office of the Secretary Defense and the Joint Staff are notified of the attack by the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon. "The information is quickly passed to Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey."
11 p.m. -- Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey meet with President Obama at the White House where they discuss the unfolding situation and how to respond. The meeting had been previously scheduled.
11:10 p.m. -- The surveillance drone arrives over the Benghazi facility.
11:30 p.m. -- All surviving U.S. personnel are evacuated from the consulate. U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and State Department computer expert Sean Smith were killed in the initial assault.
September 12
Midnight to 2 a.m. -- Panetta and other senior leaders discuss possible options for further violence if it were to break out. Panetta gives verbal orders for Marine anti-terrorist teams from Rota, Spain, to prepare to deploy to Tripoli and Benghazi. Panetta also orders a special operations force team training in Croatia and an additional special operations force team in the United States to prepare to deploy to a staging base in southern Italy.
1:30 a.m. -- A six-man security team from the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli arrives in Benghazi.
2:39 a.m. to 2:53 a.m. -- The National Military Command Center gives formal authorization for the deployment of the two special operations force teams from Croatia and the United States.
5:15 a.m. -- Attackers launch assault on a second U.S. facility in Benghazi. Two former U.S. Navy SEALs acting as security contractors are killed. They are identified as Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.
6:05 a.m. -- A C-17 aircraft in Germany is told to prepare to deploy to Libya to evacuate the consulate personnel.
7:40 a.m. -- The first wave of Americans are evacuated to Tripoli via airplane.
10 a.m. -- A second group, including those killed in the attack, are flown to Tripoli.
2:15 p.m. -- The C-17 departs from Germany for the flight to Tripoli.
7:17 p.m. -- The C-17 leaves Tripoli with the American consulate personnel and the bodies of Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.
7:57 p.m. -- The U.S. special operations force team based in Croatia arrives at a staging base in Italy.
8:56 p.m. -- One of the Marine anti-terrorist teams from Spain arrives in Tripoli.
9:28 p.m. -- The U.S.-based special operations force team arrives at its staging base in Italy.
I see nothing in that timeline to suggest any incompetence on Obama's part. In fact what I do see is that it took too long in my opinion before he was notified about what was happening. Also what I do see is that action was being taken appropriately through the chain of command. Also what I do see is that the white house was actively involved in responding to the attacks in the most appropriate way possible. The situation was responded to not only in an appropriate manner but as quickly as possible. What was of paramount importance at that point was to evacuate all remaining civilian and non military personnel from the area to prevent anyone else from being killed. The Ambassador and State Department computer expert were killed during the initial assault so by the time the military were aware of what was happening it was too late for them. As to the other 2 who were killed they were ex navy seals acting as security, so it was their job to protect the others while they were being evacuated and they lost their lives performing their job and fulfilling their duty which is evident since no one other then them got killed afterward. As for everything that happened afterward, other than it taking too long for them to notify Obama of what was happening, I can find no fault in how the situation was handled.
Also there is nothing in the facts and this timeline to indicate any fault on Obama's part for the 4 deaths that occurred. The first 2 happened in the initial assault the second 2 during the evacuation. Out of all the people there and only 4 lost their lives shows that our military and security forces on the ground were very effective at handling the problem.
ETA: This timeline, as I said, has been released to several news agencies. Unlike the right winger bs that fuzzy is spewing, the info I have just relayed can be verified. Also the timeline itself can be indenpendantly verified from other sources outside the pentagon, since a lot of people were involved in the response to the attacks as well as the subsequent evacuation of the remaining personnel.
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 11:54:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Rob... That's one side of the story.
We will wait with great anticipation for the other side of the story.
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Post by robinpa on Feb 8, 2013 11:55:38 GMT -5
Thanks, Rob... That's one side of the story. We will wait with great anticipation for the other side of the story. Exactly, but other than fuzzy's hate for Obama we have not heard her side. Atleast not one with any facts to back it up.
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 11:58:08 GMT -5
Thanks, Rob... That's one side of the story. We will wait with great anticipation for the other side of the story. Exactly, but other than fuzzy's hate for Obama we have not heard her side. Atleast not one with any facts to back it up. Obama's incompetence cost 4 Americans their lives... What other facts do you need?
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Post by robinpa on Feb 8, 2013 11:59:25 GMT -5
Exactly, but other than fuzzy's hate for Obama we have not heard her side. Atleast not one with any facts to back it up. Obama's incompetence cost 4 Americans their lives... What other facts do you need? LOL yeah thats the song they keep singing, like a bunch of parrots all just repeating what the were taught to say.
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Post by pilgrim47 on Feb 8, 2013 12:36:36 GMT -5
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Post by Shirina on Feb 8, 2013 13:14:38 GMT -5
Tut tut, Fuzzy ... even though you're a right-winger, I had thought you a step above this tactic, but apparently not. If I had a nickel for every right-winger who ducked away from providing proof and links by telling me to "go look for it yourself," I would own Fort Knox.
I don't want to go look for it myself because I want us to be on the same page - literally. I want to know PRECISELY where you received your information so we're not debating two entirely different version of events. That's not such an unreasonable request, is it not?
This is exactly why right-wingers are slowly but surely becoming the laughing stock of American politics - and one of the reasons why Obama won even though, historically, he shouldn't have.
Obama voted "present" in less than 3% of all of his votes. Giulianni, Palin, and McCain all used the "voting present" rhetoric and it is patently false. If even major politicians are falling for this nonsense, well ... there you go. See what I said about being the laughing stock. Obama's votes are a matter of public record which means ANYONE can look them up. Apparently, the silly right-wingers actually believed no one would.
Sure, I care to know what went on. However, as someone well versed in history, I know that we won't know for quite some time. That's the way it works and, therefore, there's no point in commenting on Benghazi. It won't be until documents are declassified, new witnesses come forward, and far more exhaustive research has been done before we really know the truth.
I brought up General Short and Admiral Kimmel in my previous post for a reason. These two men, both commanding the military forces at Pearl Harbor, were stripped of their commands and blamed almost exclusively for not being prepared for the Japanese attack. But hey, guess what - in 2000, the Senate issued a lengthy exoneration of both Kimmel's and Short's conduct and found they were not responsible after all. Yeah, it only took 59 years to get to the truth.
While I'm quite certain that a dangling carrot like Benghazi is just too juicy a morsel for the right-wingers to resist, those who are REALLY interested in what went on have to be patient enough to let history sort itself out.
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