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Post by Forever Sunshine on Feb 21, 2013 23:39:07 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2013 6:52:48 GMT -5
Yeah, i am sure this is nothing new. And, Dems don't care. They don't want to do anything to ensure the integrity of the elections. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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Post by Shirina on Feb 22, 2013 10:55:12 GMT -5
Only 20 people were suspected of voter fraud, and investigations showed that they were innocent mistakes. Yeah, it happens.
To say that Dems "don't care" is precisely the reason why we don't want to make an issue out of it. After all, Obama didn't win Ohio by two votes. Republicans, on the other hand, are sure to make noise saying the entire election and Obama's presidency is suspect because two people in Ohio voted twice. That's the problem.
As far as "ensuring the integrity of elections" is concerned, I'm sure you're referring to voter ID laws.
Well, they are unconstitutional. Here's how:
The 24th Amendment strictly forbids poll taxes in order to vote. That essentially means no one can be charged by the government in order to exercise their right to vote.
With a voter ID law, the only way to vote is to acquire some sort of state-issued ID - a drivers' licence or a state ID. The problem is that you have to PAY for those ID cards. The government is both charging and collecting those fees - and that amounts to a poll tax. It doesn't matter if the fee is only $15 or whatever, it is still a charge one must pay in order to vote. That is clearly unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment.
The only way to be withiin the law is for the government to issue those IDs free of charge.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Feb 22, 2013 11:02:40 GMT -5
Only 20 people in that area but suppose it happens throughout the US?
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Post by robinpa on Feb 22, 2013 12:49:58 GMT -5
Only 20 people in that area but suppose it happens throughout the US? This is funny, supposedly some small amount of people voted more than once and a lot of repos are crying voter fraud as if it would erase the fact that Obama won by a large margin of not only the electoral votes but the popular votes as well. The reality of this is that even if 20 or even 200 people voted for Obama more than once it doesnt matter, because without those allegedly extra votes Obama still would have won the election. Its the repos crying still because they lost the election. They just cant seem to fathom that the majority of american people just dont believe in their BS anymore.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Feb 22, 2013 12:54:29 GMT -5
But, the bigger picture is that it's happening at all. And to blow it off sets a precedent and the stage for it to continue to happen on a much bigger scale and people will just ignore it and blow it off as the norm.
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Post by jackthelad on Feb 22, 2013 13:40:36 GMT -5
Only 20 people in that area but suppose it happens throughout the US? This is funny, supposedly some small amount of people voted more than once and a lot of repos are crying voter fraud as if it would erase the fact that Obama won by a large margin of not only the electoral votes but the popular votes as well. The reality of this is that even if 20 or even 200 people voted for Obama more than once it doesnt matter, because without those allegedly extra votes Obama still would have won the election. Its the repos crying still because they lost the election. They just cant seem to fathom that the majority of american people just dont believe in their BS anymore. It is apparent to me that Fuzzems does, but has you say she is not in the majority.
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Post by Shirina on Feb 22, 2013 17:56:26 GMT -5
The problem is that we have a massive electorate and a sprawling election process with thousands of polling stations. With hundreds of millions of people casting votes, our system is not going to be perfect. No system ever is. There can never be a 100% guarantee that everyone only receives one vote or that someone somewhere isn't trying to sneak in an extra vote or two.
Given how large our nation is, I find it almost miraculous that every election isn't disputed due to bureaucratic errors, computer errors, and other things that can go wrong - never mind actual fraud.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is that we MUST have a certain amount of trust in the system. Incidents of fraud are very low, and unless it can be proven that voter fraud actually affected the outcome of the election, we can't simply assume that because 20 people voted twice perhaps 2,000,000 voted twice (all of them Democrats, of course!) and doubt the outcome of the election.
There has to be proof.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Feb 22, 2013 18:11:11 GMT -5
Yes, I know there has to be proof. Voter fraud obviously does happen yet, so many swear on a stack of proverbial bibles that it doesn't. The problem I see is that as we accept a handful, we accept more and more and become desensitized to it in much the same way we've become desensitized to politicians committing adultery or not inhaling.
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Post by beags on Mar 2, 2013 14:51:59 GMT -5
If it is clearly against the 24th amendment, than my state wouldn't have this law, or the state I grew up in. I can't remember a time when I went to vote that I did not have to produce a drivers license or a state issued ID. How else does one prove they are a citizen of the United States of America. Illegals should not be allowed to vote. But in some states they are because they don't have this law.
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Post by beags on Mar 2, 2013 14:58:47 GMT -5
The proof is your birth certificate or the state embossed paper that says your a citizen of the USA when you get your ID or Drivers license.
I can't believe you are complaining about the small fee it costs for this. Why would you not want to make sure that everyone who votes is legal. If it was the republicans that won and this came out, you would be screaming from the rooftops over it. Just as the republicans are doing now that a dem won by not requiring proof of citizenship. If there is evidence of a small area, then you know it happened elsewhere as well. NOT that it will change anything, because it won't. But for the future elections, it has to be fixed.
You pay a fee to get a license plate and registration for your car, you pay a fee to own any credit card, even if that fee is interest, you pay a fee to get a bank loan, you pay a fee for everything in this country . . . . and because it has to do with getting rid of illegal votes . . . you complain about a fee for getting an ID that PROVES you're a citizen.
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 2, 2013 17:43:32 GMT -5
A Nevada Republican arrested for voter fraud in the 2012 election, after claiming she was trying to test the system's integrity, pled guilty and accepted a plea deal Thursday, forcing her to pay almost $2,500 and promise to stay out of trouble. Roxanne Rubin, 56, a casino worker on the Las Vegas Strip, was arrested on Nov. 3, 2012 after trying to vote twice, once at her poling site in Henderson and then at a second site in Las Vegas. The poll workers at the second site said that she had already voted, but Rubin said that she hadn't and insisted on casting a ballot, which the poll workers refused to allow her to do. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/roxanne-rubin_n_2566297.htmlLooks like it happens on both sides of the aisle.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Mar 2, 2013 18:38:54 GMT -5
Of course it does!
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mtman
Not so new Crapster
Posts: 265
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Post by mtman on Mar 2, 2013 20:35:53 GMT -5
With a voter ID law, the only way to vote is to acquire some sort of state-issued ID - a drivers' licence or a state ID. The problem is that you have to PAY for those ID cards. Those people don't have any problem coming up with an ID when they're standing at the counter in the liquor store.
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Post by robinpa on Mar 2, 2013 21:48:59 GMT -5
With a voter ID law, the only way to vote is to acquire some sort of state-issued ID - a drivers' licence or a state ID. The problem is that you have to PAY for those ID cards. Those people don't have any problem coming up with an ID when they're standing at the counter in the liquor store. You know what they need to do? They need to start accepting food stamps at the liquor store. I am not on welfare right now but if they did that I misght consider applying for it.
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mtman
Not so new Crapster
Posts: 265
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Post by mtman on Mar 4, 2013 10:04:32 GMT -5
They need to start accepting food stamps at the liquor store. I am not on welfare right now but if they did that I misght consider applying for it. It's what we would expect from you.
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Post by robinpa on Mar 5, 2013 16:26:11 GMT -5
Awww mt, you say that like its a bad thing. You're just cranky cause your karma is low. Here, I'll give you one to brighten your day.
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Post by Shirina on Mar 5, 2013 23:50:43 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how big the fee is, beags. If the government is imposing ANY kind of fee that directly prevents you from voting, it is unconstitutional.
If they want voter ID laws, then the government can issue special voter ID cards to those who need them. For free.
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Post by Shirina on Mar 5, 2013 23:52:15 GMT -5
Says the person who could know that ONLY if they're hanging around a liquor store - probably in line right behind "those people."
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Post by beags on Mar 8, 2013 14:59:56 GMT -5
You seriously don't get it, do you?
You are hung up on the fee and not the fact that a state issued ID or Drivers license will PROVE you are a United States citizen. Which should be enforced when voting in this country. Your head would spin if you lived in my state because a drivers license or state ID IS required for you to vote.
There are fees for everything . . . it is not a way to get people to not vote. That's only in your head . . . OR I should say the heads of almost every extreme left wing liberal I ever met.
It's a way to prove you are a citizen, plain and simple. Nothing more nothing less.
No voter ID card would be completely free. Sure it can be for the person who gets it if the state/city/town/ does this type of thing. BUT if the person cannot present a valid birth certificate, they would not get the ID. Then you have the cost of taking the picture, printing out the ID, and all that stuff involved. Do you honestly think that will be free? HELL no the state/city/town will get their money back by raising the taxes. THEN all the taxpayers would be bitching because why should they have to pay for someone to get an ID?
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