moxie
Not so new Crapster
SF Shades of Blues
Posts: 205
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Post by moxie on Dec 24, 2011 11:04:52 GMT -5
I understand why some might want to get married but I don't see it as necessary myself.
It can become a necessity in society. Marriage in itself can provide security on few levels.
*NO WAY would I feel I needed to a second time! Seriously, WHY would I???
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moxie
Not so new Crapster
SF Shades of Blues
Posts: 205
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Post by moxie on Dec 24, 2011 11:10:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade MY LIFE for the lives of those over-botoxed, perky-boobed, fake, plastic trophy wives on "Real Housewives Of Beverly Hills." NO WAY!! My Swiffers are good enough for me...for now anyways! ;D
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Post by isa on Dec 24, 2011 11:25:40 GMT -5
No, I don’t think it is cold, Star. Initially I was generalising quite airily but instead of choosing specific examples to refute the generalisations you seem to have given examples which reinforce them.
Yes, I have decided this, and I have decided it for the reasons given. You have decided something contrary for different reasons, which led you to voice the objection that marriage is a social necessity that is conducive to security. Naturally I have asked you for examples in evidence of this; you have tried 3 times to tell me what marriage is, you have given information about Jane Austen, and you have given several examples of the way in which the presumably once virtuous institution of marriage has become little more than a cynical strategy of private enterprise. I remain optimistic though that you will eventually support your objection with something of relevance and substance.
Regards.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Dec 24, 2011 11:39:04 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. I think insecurities are there before the marriage and the marriage exacerbates them. I think people believe marriage will alleviate their insecurities and therefore; marry.
If you're not happy with yourself, if you don't like yourself, there is no way you can make a marriage work. One's happiness isn't dependent on another to make it happen.
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Post by Spellbound454 on Dec 24, 2011 12:41:29 GMT -5
Sure. There is nothing worse than a possessive partner who stifles a persons every move and keep them prisoner because of an insecurity that is bordering on derangement.
There are those who like to be controlling...and in no way is that a recipe for a happy marriage. Sometimes there is no way out but to leave before it gets worse.
but that extreme isn't quite what I meant. I'm thinking of a situation where one partner is putting in the groundwork to build up a future together and sees the other partner overcome by temptation.
This may in itself produce a reaction which is more severe than if they had been single....and is perhaps understandable given the gravity of their relationship and what is at stake.
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Dec 24, 2011 12:52:08 GMT -5
But the partner overcome by temptation is operating from a form of insecurity within him/herself. And in no way should that person have committed to a marriage.
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moxie
Not so new Crapster
SF Shades of Blues
Posts: 205
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Post by moxie on Dec 24, 2011 13:21:11 GMT -5
"There is nothing worse than a possessive partner who stifles a persons every move and keep them prisoner because of an insecurity that is bordering on derangement." ^I wouldn't last for 30 seconds!! NO ONE OWNS ME!
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Post by femme on Dec 24, 2011 13:29:03 GMT -5
I've only been married to the same woman for 46 years. Any help would be appreciated. Sounds like you need no help and are doing great! 46 years...Kudos to you Warrior!
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Post by femme on Dec 24, 2011 13:29:46 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade MY LIFE for the lives of those over-botoxed, perky-boobed, fake, plastic trophy wives on "Real Housewives Of Beverly Hills." NO WAY!! My Swiffers are good enough for me...for now anyways! ;D Mox...That just made me LOL... ;D
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Post by shirina on Dec 24, 2011 13:38:15 GMT -5
Spellbound
The problem here is deciding when something becomes "detrimental" and when the perception of detriment is merely an over-reaction. For instance, I might have a platonic friendship with a man I have known since childhood. If I spend time with him alone, that would probably be detrimental to my marriage ... but should it be? I mean, if I've known this friend for 25 years and we see each other as siblings, should my husband get flustered if my friend and I go to the movies together or some such?
One of the first things that will infuriate me is if a boyfriend decides he wants to restructure my past. "Yes, honey, I actually had friends before I met you; God did not create me from your rib." I won't be told who I can spend time with, not when it comes to my friends - especially old friends.
ISA:
You're certainly not wrong, but I think there is more to it than fear and insecurity. I also think it has much to do with societal demands.
For instance, I once asked a friend of mine a theoretical question: "Would you 'allow' me to, say, have dinner with your husband without you present?"
The answer was a resounding NO ... and the reason wasn't because she thought her husband and I would run off to have a romantic tryst; it was because married people simply did not spend time alone with single people of the opposite sex. It had everything to do with the "expected" behavior of a married couple and little to do with fear and insecurity.
Another example revolves around a guy I dated in college. He was big into the party scene - the usual frat boy kind of stuff. I really had no desire to attend these loud, crowded beer parties, but I never told him he couldn't go. "Have fun," I'd tell him, and I meant it. "I'm just going to hang out with a few good friends tonight."
So he'd go do his thing, I would do mine, and we would catch a bit of quality time when he came home (even if he was drunk LOL!)
Then one night he came home from one of those parties being unusually pensive and quiet. I asked what the deal was and he told me how a buddy of his at the party asked in usual guy fashion, "Are you and that Shirina chick still together?" I guess it floored him that his friend would even ask that - of course we were still together. When asked why he asked, this friend said we don't really act like a couple.
Well, that insidious observation crawled into his brain and took root. By George, we really DON'T act like a couple! At least, according to what his friends think how a couple should behave.
Things deteriorated rapidly after that. He didn't want to attend his parties unless I went because "we had to be seen together more often." If he stayed home, he was miserable because he'd be missing the party, and that alienated him from all of his friends who went. But if I went with him, I was miserable because I'm not a big fan of how guys behave together in groups while drinking large amounts of beer.
When he stayed home, he made me miserable because a) HE was miserable and b) it was more difficult to have a bit of free time with my own friends. When I went to his parties, I was miserable because a) I had done the whole "wild party" bit two semesters before he even got there and had it out of my system and b) he acted like a ridiculous crass alpha male idiot when drunk around his friends (I suddenly became "the bitch" to his friends because that was the vernacular for "girlfriend" then).
If we had continued doing what we had been doing - us doing our own thing - we might have worked out. But because we didn't "act like a couple" to the satisfaction of "society," we adjusted what worked for us to something that did NOT work.
Again, nothing to do with fear and insecurity - we trusted each other implicitly - it was those damnable societal pressures that wrecked that relationship.
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Post by shirina on Dec 24, 2011 13:44:28 GMT -5
You know, something really rubs me the wrong way when I notice I'm being "smote" without even knowing why. I dropped 3 karma points in a day? Seriously?
Not that I care overmuch about my karma score, but if people would rather smite me than actually tangle with me in a debate, I think I'm going to ask that FS remove the karma feature from my account.
I would appreciate it if you'd do that, FS. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Dec 24, 2011 13:50:25 GMT -5
Shirina, you can do that by modifying your profile. There should be something in there to opt out of it. It's towards the middle of the page, the first one under Account Preferences.
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moxie
Not so new Crapster
SF Shades of Blues
Posts: 205
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Post by moxie on Dec 24, 2011 13:52:52 GMT -5
BOO!!
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Post by isa on Dec 24, 2011 14:23:42 GMT -5
Hey Shirina. Dunno who be smiting you there but I’ll bump you back up!
(I think you can remove the karma feature yourself somewhere in your “Modify Profile” page. I removed mine ‘cos I think karma is unnecessary when you can like or dislike posts. Smiting karma seems to leave a permanent scar whereas liking a single post has a transient quality to it…)
Yes, I’m open to suggestion as to the mechanisms at work in such scenarios. The urge to conform is an interesting one, you are right to identify it and a good case in point you provided there too. I don’t know exactly what it is that makes people behave with that sort of herd mentality. I know it quickly becomes a hassle to be different - to have to continuously explain and justify yourself etc. I guess, with things like the BF’s extended circle of friends you mentioned, there may be a certain desire to not let others down, to meet up to their expectations.
Perhaps how integrated one is into cultural protocol is a significant factor in compatibility.
Heh, if you hadn’t split with the matey then you would have become one of those people who disappears from the social radar.
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Post by snerdley on Dec 24, 2011 14:24:19 GMT -5
roy - We had to live and learn. We spent many years of our marriage butting heads, demanding to be right, demanding that one person do this or that and the other thing. Finally, it seemed to dawn on both us that we just need to chill, that we need to accept one another and stop running each other into the ground. I see so many young couples just push and push one another. They set up their lives to impossible standards and then their marriages fall apart. You have to learn to accept the temperments of one another. There are just some things my spouse isn't interested in doing or can't do and vice versa. It isn't all that important. And, sometimes you lose sight of the relationship when getting so busy. There is a time to shut all those things that distract off and reconnect with your spouse.
We've been at this 32 yrs. You make a good point on my side, during my "season" I work 60-80 hrs a week, so when I come home I collapse, just to do it again in the morning, working this side of a camera is tedious, so, sometimes the LAST thing I want to do is be bothered with household "stuff". The "butting of heads" is the issue now. Poking at me. Yeah, when I write it out like this, it helps me (you've helped me) to see it more clerarly. Back to the drawing board ;D
Unfortunately, sometimes all this begins to hit home when you start to see friends divorcing or becoming widowed. Then you start to really think about your life alone and without that person beside you. It really begins puts things into perspective.
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Post by snerdley on Dec 24, 2011 14:36:27 GMT -5
You know, something really rubs me the wrong way when I notice I'm being "smote" without even knowing why. I dropped 3 karma points in a day? Seriously? Not that I care overmuch about my karma score, but if people would rather smite me than actually tangle with me in a debate, I think I'm going to ask that FS remove the karma feature from my account. I would appreciate it if you'd do that, FS. Thanks in advance!
Well, big whoop, i am down 5 karmas today!
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Post by Spellbound454 on Dec 24, 2011 14:49:47 GMT -5
This is an interesting question. It could depend on a number of things:- I guess it depends on whether you are sharing confidences with another person about your marriage.... when it would be better to speak to your husband about it. My husband used to confide in his mother.... and they would make decisions about our marriage that didn't involve me. She also felt vindicated to interfere.... on behalf of her son of course. Used to drive me nuts. Or...Has that person got some feelings other than friendship for you. Maybe an unrequited love? It's more common than you might think. Does he share inappropriate cuddling, kissing or loaded text messages with you? Or...Do you prefer the company of said friend to that of your husband. Is he feeling left out? Or.....Would you have been better off marrying the friend and are just keeping a foot in both camps? It may be harmless.. of course.....but there are many reason why it may not be a good idea.
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Post by snerdley on Dec 24, 2011 15:13:42 GMT -5
Roy, what do you to that is together to care for one another and the household.
I feel real un-appreciated for the last year. My job entails 60-70 hr weeks. I get home, I then cook dinner, for us, dinner I shopped for. No thank you, no, I love you. When I ask the question, OK what's going on, I get a fight. She works one day in two weeks, The rest of the time she watches TV, cleans her area, or goes bike riding. Not great. I provide, a roof, clothes, food, love (until a year ago). Now I'm ambivelant. Even our daughter looks at her with a question? We still go swapmeeting together, movies, trips, those are fun. But again, I'm providing all the planning and entertainment. So! It feels very onesided.
And, it may be. Sometimes that is how things develop. I guess you have to decide what works for ya and don't sweat the small stuff. If you are working so much, maybe it is time to downsize a bit and have more time. Sometimes one person is the driver. And, that isn't always a bad thing cuz often you get to do the stuff you want to do. But it can get frustrating as well. Again, i would suggest counseling or some marriage classes etc cuz sometimes that helps open the other person's eyes.
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Post by shirina on Dec 24, 2011 16:50:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm being a whiny brat today. So sue me. I'm alone on Christmas Eve so karma points are all I have to snuggle with.
*cries in beer*
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Post by snerdley on Dec 24, 2011 16:51:28 GMT -5
Well, that's fair. I will Karma you in an hour after the smite wears off!
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